马西米利安罗 吉欧尼先生 Mr. Massimili Gioni 是 纽约市新当代艺术博物馆的特展部主任 ( Director of Special Exhibitions at The New Museum In New York )以及意大利米兰市尼古拉诸莎迪基金会艺术总监(Artistic Director Of The Nicola Trussardi Foundation, Milan) 。 Mr. Massimili Gioni 先生是国际著名双年展策展人和艺术批评家。他曾策过世界六个不同城市双的年展，其中包括 2010年韩国光洲双年展(总策展人)，2007年德国柏林双年展(联合策展人)，2004 年西班牙圣巴斯汀双年展(联合策展人)，2003 年意大利威尼斯双年展(联合策展人)等。

吉欧尼先生Mr. Massimili Gioni 在会上向大家系统介绍了2010 年 光洲双年展 ( Gwanju Biennial 2010)的组展过程和他的体会 : 2010 年举行的第 8 届光洲双年展向世人们展示的是一种对 " 图像与人 和人与图像之间的紧密的依属关系所进行的随意调查和研究 ( A Sprawling Investigation of the Relationships that Bind People to Images and Images to People) " 。策展人从 1901 年至 2010 年这 100 多年长的历史中选出了100 多位艺家的作品和其它新主题一起参加展出。这届双年展被看成为一座临时的艺术博物馆，它把艺术作品和文化的现象众聚一堂以检验人们对图像的迷恋。这届双年展的主题为 " 一万个生命 " (10,000 Lives) , 是从韩国诗人高银的 30 卷未完成史诗集中借鉴而来，并以此来勾起人们对历史的回忆和反思。展览包含着各种不同的媒介，但主题是环绕着肖像。 在如何选择艺术家的问题上，吉欧尼先生表示 : 我选艺术家的态度首先是要看他们的作品是否符合我的审美主题。他们不一定都是很有名气的艺术家，但必须是我的很好的合作伙伴 (Partners) ，其作品的审美思想能融汇入我的策展观念之中。吉欧尼先生与大家一起简略地探讨了图像观念的演变以及在当代我们如何看待由谁来创造图像; 艺术家与图像; 图像与艺术家之间的关系等问题。

会后由纽约古根汗博物馆 Guggenheim Museum 特别联系安排，马西米利安罗 吉欧尼先生接受了中华艺术网负责人喻干的专题采访。下面是采访的全部内容(中英文稿 ):

"一个展览就是一篇视觉论文": 吉欧尼先生, 他的光洲双年展和他的审美思想

喻 Question: 从您为大家放的那些光洲双年展的幻灯片中我看到了一些很令人感动和吃惊的图片，如一辆当时用过的灵车载着被杀者的大幅装照片的镜框停在展厅里等。请问韩国政府是否在全力支持这些带有很浓政治倾向的敏感主题？光洲市政府和大多数的光洲市民是否能理解，欣常您的主题思想和双年展中所陈列的艺术作品？  

吉欧尼 Gioni : 是的，韩国政府的确全力支持我所主策的这届双年展，光洲地方政府对这个展览也尽力很大的努力。我必须说的是，尽管我所策划的这次双年展览对于光洲来说是一个完全不同以往的很特殊的艺术展览，但光洲这个城市给予我这位艺术总监充分的信任与完全的自由，他们表现了出极大的支持。还有，因为 2010 年是所谓发生在 1980 年的人民反对独裁军政的 " 光洲暴动 "30 周年纪念，我几乎是即兴式把这个情节加进这个展览，让它或多或少地直接渗入某些内容，使它与当地的历史产生共鸣。但我同时要强调的是，事实上我并没有想把这次双年展做成一个政治主题的展览，或一次有关于政治的展览 : 这个展览只是关于图像，以及我们在日常生活中运用图像的方式。政治只不过是其中的某－个方面，展览中有许多我们生活中其它的方面，在此之中图像成为最重要的一个元素。

喻 Question: 您选择艺术家的哲学似乎与其他策展人不同，如您在会上所说您并不太注重艺术家有多大的名气，而是要看他们的作品是否能与您的审美主题紧密结合。这是不是您做重要策展的一贯主风格或这只是特用于 2010 年光洲双年展 ? 您所选择艺术家的标准是否与 " 谁在创造图像 " 的理念有关？

吉欧尼 Gioni : 对于我来说光洲双年展就是这样的。 与以前我我策过的许多双年展一样，我 力图在光洲搞一些新的内容，保持实践性。我认为很重要的一点是，当你被邀请主持国际双年展策划时，你会去重新思考国际双年展的定义。所以我可以回答你 : 这次光洲双年展与我以前所策划的所有国际双年展的确有很大的不同。最重要的是，我想把它做成一个巨大的主题性展览，其模式是想把它建成一所再现不同种族审美艺术的博物馆，而并非仅仅是在做一届双年展。下面几个理由决定了我的做法 : 首先，我有欲望去改变传统上策划和组织国际双年展的规则 ; 第二，双年展应该考虑到更多不同种族和文化背景的观众，艺术作品应该要向观众提供非常特别的内含 ; 第三，我希望把此次双年展做成一个长久以来都没有看到过的展览 : 百科全书式的，历史性的，启迪性的，毫不枯燥乏味的展览 一 它是一篇视觉论文。同时我又必须强调，如果说我在选择艺术作品时不重视著名艺术家，那是不正确的。这次展览中有许多优秀艺术家，很多大名鼎鼎的人，但他们的作品又同时也放在许多无名小足或年轻艺术家，那些传统上被看作为 " 艺术圈外 " 人们的作品旁被一起展出。 并不是所有的艺术作品都被简单地聚集起来去阐述某个主题，我要说的是我们观察这些艺术作品时不应是在真空里，而应该从一个相关联的系统出发，这样我们就能够学到很多关于艺术，关于图像方面的东西。比如我们在看杰夫孔恩 (Jeff Koons) 时，要把其作品与医学模型的观念联系到一起来研究。

喻 Question: 总体来说，国际双年展是一项纯艺术活动，还是同时还带有产生经济效益的动机？

吉欧尼 Gioni : 所有的双年展都与经济方面的因素有关，都与那所城市的政治与政策有关。但当一个双年展是健康的，能引发观众兴趣的和仍然是实践性的，我认为应该力求把重点放在艺术上，其它的东西都为次。我可以肯定地说在光洲，我从未受到过任何来自官方或观众的压力去做艺术展览以外的事。这一点需要慎重说明。

喻 Question: 如果中国的某一个与韩国光洲市规模相类似 ( 或更大 ) 的城市，比如说无锡等城市计划做国际双年展但是该城市还没有任何经验，你有什么好的建议可作指导吗？

吉欧尼 Gioni : 我认为韩国光洲双年展就是一个很有趣的例子，因为它显示出你可以在把展览做成向巨大的观众群体开放的空间，同时又可保持在艺术方面完全的实验性和前瞻性。我并没有什么可以指导的，但我可以建议如果某一个城市想要主办国际双年展，很重要的一点是要延续国际艺术双年展的方向，以极大的热情去欢迎这个理念和做法。

喻干 Yu: 非常感谢 Thank you very much ！

Thanks to Guggenheim Museum's arrangement, I have a chance to ask my questions directly to Mr. Massimiliano Gioni as follow up the panel discussion on "International Biennial" in 3/27/2011 - Yu, Gan. Here are my questions and his answers.

"An Exhibition as a Visual Essay": Mr. Massimilano Gioni, His Gwanju Biennial 2010 and His Aesthetic Perspective

Question: From the slides review of your Gwanju Biennial, I saw some very touching and stunning images from the recent history of Gwanju, such as a real funeral wagon carried a large picture frame of a famous dissident, etc. Does the Korean government fully support this kind of strong political related theme? Can the Local official authority and majority citizen of Gwanju understand and appreciate your curatorial theme and the works in this Biennial Exhibition?

Gioni: Obviously, yes, the Korean government fully supported the Biennial I curated and the local authorities felt very committed to the exhibition. I must say they would have expressed their support even if I had done a completely different exhibition because that is what is very special and unique to Gwangju: it is a city that has embraced the biennial and truly supports it and grants the artistic director complete freedom. Further more, because 2010 was the 30th anniversary of the so called Gwangju Uprisings, an event during which the population rebelled against the military dictatorship of the 1980s, it came quite spontaneous to me to organize an exhibition that more or less directly could touch upon some elements that resonated with the local history. But I also like to stress the fact that I didnt approach the exhibition as a show about political themes or a show about politics: the exhibition was about images and the way we use images in our everyday life. So politics were just one of the aspects in an exhibition that also dealt with many other aspects of our lives in which images have become the most important element.

Question: Your philosophy of selecting artist is quite different from the other curators. As you s ai d that you don't pay much attention to the fame of artist, but the works that are closely in shape with your aesthetical theme. Is this your usual style for major curatorial projects or just for the Gwanju Biennial 2010? Is your principle of selecting artists relating to your concept of who is making the image?

Gioni: For me the Gwangju Biennale was - as any biennale I have curated in the past - an occasion to try out something new and keep experimenting: I think it's important that when you are invited to work on a biennial, you try to redefine what a biennial can be. So, to answer you question, no, the way I have organized the Gwangju biennale was very different from other biennials I have curated in the past. Most importantly, I wanted the biennale to be organized as a very large thematic exhibition and the model for the exhibition was more the aesthetics of an ethnographic museum than a biennial. This approach was suggested by a few reasons: first of all, by a desire to change the rules of the games of the biennials; secondly by the fact that I thought that the Gwangju Biennale needed to be addressed to a very diverse audience, one that also needed the art works to be provided with a very specific context; third, by the fact that I simply wanted to make an exhibition that I hadn ' t seen in a long time, an exhibition that was encyclopedic, historical, and somehow didactic, without being sterile - an exhibition as a visual essay. I must also say that it is not true that I don ' t pay attention to the importance of the artist when I chose her or his work: there were many great artists in the show, many famous ones, but they were also displayed next to found objects and much more unknown, younger artists or others that are traditionally defined "outsider artists": this didn ' t mean that all the art was simply gathered to illustrate a theme, but it did mean that I think we can learn more about art and about images when we look at them not in a vacuum but in a system of relationships. So not just Jeff Koons but Jeff Koons in relation with some found medical mannequins for example.

Question: In general, is the International Biennial a pure artistic practice or it aiming at producing some commercial profits in the meantime?

Gioni: All biennials obviously are tight to economic reasons and to city politics and policies, but when a biennial is healthy and interesting and still experimental I think it is possible still to only focus on the art and the other elements have to follow. I can certainly say that in Gwangju I never received any pressure to do a show instead of another because of some audience or local pressure. I think that this is important to stress.

Question: If a similar size city (could be bigger) in China, like a city of Wu Xi plans to sponsor an international biennial and it doesn't have any experience, what is your advice?

Gioni: I think that the example set by Gwangju is very interesting because it shows you can have an event open to a very wide audience and yet remain completely experimental and radical from an artistic point of view. I dont have many advices but I can only suggest that if a city wants a biennale, then it is important that it embraces the idea full on, without compromises and making a conscious effort to change the history of what biennales can do.

Yu, Gan: Thank you very much!